On today’s episode, Greg and Trevor #KeepItReal while discussing applying new information.
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Welcome to the Resilient Performance Podcast, this is Keep It Real talk number 12 with Dr. Trevor Rappa here and myself, Greg Spatz. We don’t have Doug on this episode this week. Uh, we got one question sent in that was pretty thought provoking. Um, the person wanted us to discuss how we think about integrating new ideas or continuing education into practice.
Um, how do we find a balance between experimentation and, and progressing? Um, or progress while keeping our original framework. Um, so how do we try new things without sort of losing all the things that we used to do? Or we, we did before learning something new, um, maybe one of you provide, or each of you provide an example of how you’ve incorporated something new into your thinking or treatment recently.
I think that’s an awesome question. I think like, just the start, um, I think one of the things that all three of us have always kind of strived for and the boys wanted to be like, one of our, our values is just like that idea of like always wanting to learn more and always kind of searching for more. So I don’t think any of us have ever thought that we have like all of the answers or that we, you know, Can’t keep learning.
Can’t continue to learn. Um, I would say that I think, uh, speak for myself on this one. Like what kind of content I’m more attracted to these days is like way different than what I was like in PT school. Um, cause I really enjoyed like all of the theory and stuff that, of the different courses that we used to take, you know, a number of years ago.
Cause the thing that helps me, like create a model in my head and Kevin idea of like, what are my weak points? What are the things that I need to learn more, what’s going to help me impact my clients. But I think those courses that are initially kind of more on like the theoretical practical side of things are great initially, but I can tell over the last few years, myself, I’ve really wanted to get more like into the weeds of like, Practical things meaning like more coaching related or something, more intervention related, whether it’s a manual therapy course, whether it’s like spending time with, with Lee TAF and watching him coach athletes, or like we did with Derek Hanson.
So I think always being open to learning more and knowing that nobody has all the answers and you can always continue to learn more is something that all of us, you know, take, take pride in kind of feeling that way. Um, but I think just, it’s kind of interesting to like, reflect back on like how the.
Interests have changed for us in all the courses that we’ve taken up kind of changed over time. Yeah, definitely. I would definitely echo that and say, you know, early on when everything is new, it’s really easy to dive in really deep and you should, and that’s like, that’s how you start to build your framework early on in your career as a student.
Um, and we see that with the students that we do take, they are diving in so deep, like we did. That we almost have to kind of pull them back a little bit, because like you said, you can, you can learn things that are interesting, but in the end, does it change what you do? Um, in like a practical standpoint.
And that’s definitely, like you said, something that we’re focused on more so, you know, as the years go by is like, okay, well there’s this new thing or this new course, or this new pres presenters talking about something, um, different. But is it going to change what I do, um, in the coming weeks? Because if it’s not that I’m, it’s more just a hobby.
Right. And I think we’ve spoken about this before on a different episode, but that’s definitely part of the process. And definitely like, you know, if you have a framework that works, if you’re doing stuff that works and it’s helping people, then you don’t have to stray from it as much. So. The longer you practice, the more solid your framework should be.
So then you don’t have to deviate as much. And then over time, you’re just exposed to more and more things than you decide. Which sort of tools on your tool belt, you want to pick to implement that certain times that’s just based on experience. Um, and yeah, one of the things, what were you gonna say? No, I wouldn’t say that was just, I remember hearing go Hartman a high mode go.
I don’t remember what it was on, but I remember him saying like, and it’s always stuck with me, was like, you need to have foundation in like the basic sciences in, you know, biomechanics and anatomy and then kinesiology and, uh, you know, in physics and all these things to be able to actually like have a strong enough foundation. So then when you do take in new information, you have an appropriate lens and appropriate filter to kind of like. You know, take things in or keep things out from. And I think, um, having that, you know, like that’s an F for myself, I’ve strived for more and more just kind of like really understand like the fundamentals and the basics, basic sciences that like our whole kind of field, whether it’s more rehab centric or more performance centric is really based upon.
And I think as we, you know, we hear about new courses and things like that, it helps us understand like when it is useful for us and when it may not as, or sort of when it may not be as useful for us. Definitely. Yeah. And I feel like more so in the last year or two, uh, we’ve gone back more and more to the physics and, you know, things like forced, what are the forces being applied?
And I’ve said it before. Like that seems to be my, my number one, determining factor, whether I’ll use and like an X’s. And O’s like, whether I’ll use a certain exercise or not, or. Or, uh, you know, if I’m loading a certain exercise, is it even enough to give me the forces I’m looking for? And that’s more like that’s going to determine what I decide to use.
Um, so that’s definitely changed over the last couple of years for sure. And I know that for, for you, for sure, with all the stuff you’ve done, you know, dived that, the word. So all of a sudden you’ve dove in dive into with, uh, you know, with Lee’s work and change of direction and. You know, we early on, we focused so much on biomechanics.
Um, and so to the point where you almost sometimes forget about like forced application rate of force development strength, and you kind of lose those, um, more basic physiological things that, um, if you’re not. Changing those things, you’re kind of just waiting for things to change and get better. Um, which is like then why even go to therapy or why work as a trainer?
Because I could just do nothing and I’ll do the same. Um, so, uh, that’s goes back to again, do no harm. Like we have to apply stress to people to get the adaptation we’re looking for. And if we’re just focused on strictly, you know, what’s happening at this joint. And not focused on forces and physics, then we’re kind of losing, uh, a huge, probably I said number one thing.
Um, because there’s a lot of people that haven’t been heard of the content that we’ve gotten into and sort of like gone through the rabbit hole and back, um, that. Are doing great things, despite not having heard of a three-letter acronym content model. So they’re just doing proper training and loading people and periodizing and monitoring how people are responding and doing all the things that you should do, um, to be effective.
I think part of that, part of the question to me is like, makes me. We realize how fortunate we were to have the different mentors that we’ve had, like Alan, who we always kind of talk about to like really kind of bring things back to reality and you know, so to be a guy like Alan, who understands like all the different theories and models and approaches are kind of going on, but ultimately bringing everything back to like the person that you’re working with in front of you, again, whether it’s kind of performers or rehab, it doesn’t really matter, but just.
Always trying to come back to, like, what is the practicality of the things that you’re learning and is it going to make a difference for, you know, the populations that you work with, whether it’s, you know, again, more athlete centric or more just, you know, uh, gen pop type things and. That’s something. I think when, when we take on students, I know we it’s going to, usually you and I doing most of the, um, substance are with us in Jersey.
It’s always trying to get them back to the idea of like, like that’s all great stuff, but like, what are you going to do? Like, what does that, how does that help the person in front of you? Like, how does that help you give something better to the person in front of you? And I think like we were kind of referring to before.
It’s like the longer we treat and the more people we work with, like ultimately. Those are the questions I ask myself when I’m choosing an intervention. And when I’m choosing to like, learn something like, is this going to help me make an impact with the people that I work with? Because if we’re, you know, learning things for the sake of learning things, that’s great.
But I think have being able to actually apply that information and keep an open mind and continue to ask questions is vital. Definitely. And yeah, I think I, I feel like I do. Less. Like, I feel like I do fewer different things and I use a lot of the same things repeatedly because you’ve tried everything, you know, not everything.
I’m sure there’s stuff I haven’t done with people, but, um, you know, you try everything and you figure out what works and what you like the most and what you’re most comfortable coaching, um, with what population you’re working with and all that. So that’s definitely huge and yeah, for sure with students, it’s, it’s great that there’s.
Uh, such a high level of interest that we get from our students in the profession and in continuing education and valuing, um, you know, looking deeper than just what physical therapy school might provide, um, or for a strength coach further than what your, your bachelor’s might provide or your master’s degree.
So, um, that’s commendable, but yeah, for sure. It’s always like, okay, but how does that thing is that better than what I’m already doing? Um, Maybe, maybe it is, but we just have to think about things that way. Right. So that’s where, like, you know, your, your blog post that you just wrote about, uh, kind of like such a great example of that.
It’s like, there is a typical, the, uh, the private blog posts that you only get if you’re on our mailing list, which were, yeah. So make sure you’re plugging that mailing list. Join that thing. Yeah. But yeah, like, you know, the whole idea of like the throwers 10, it’s been around for a long time and I think it’s like, you’ve taken.
The kind of basic concept of that and apply things that you’ve learned from other disciplines, like with the contact prep stuff from, from Andy Rhilyn and, and, um, kind of put your own spin on it. And I think in a lot of ways made it, um, a more holistic approach to kind of what arm care can be. And, and you’re, you’re just applying things because of the understanding of like the forces and, and some of the physics behind it, being able to apply it with a different, different populations and really get some awesome results with them.
Yeah. And I still feel like I’m in that like experimentation mode at this point with it, I’m still kind of playing with it, both with myself and with patients, of course. Within, you know, say I’m being safe with it, but, um, for sure, like throwers 10 is like the ultimate number one arm care thing that everybody’s ever heard of.
And you learn about in school and everybody in the world who plays baseball has a band that they can use to do throwers then work. And I don’t trash it. Um, I think there’s a place for it, but it shouldn’t be all year round doing the same things and. Uh, not be progressed, but, um, that’s beyond the scope of this, this talk right now, but ultimately it’s a piece of the puzzle.
And I think more about like, we already spoke about forces. Like when you’re throwing a baseball, that’s literally the fastest movement that happens in sports. It’s something I, for some reason, the number of 7,000 revolutions per minute, like. Of your shoulder is occurring at your shoulder. Every time you throw up, like at least if you’re sewing at a high enough level, maybe those numbers are older or whatever, and I’m not in the know anymore.
But, um, like if, if you’re doing that and there’s like so much distraction, like over an inch of distraction happening at your shoulder, like the compressive forces that you have to create to react to that distraction. To me. It’s like, okay, if that’s what’s happening, how is this like sidelining three pound external rotation with a dumbbell thing?
Like, how is that going to help me? And there is an, there is a way that it does. I think it’s more related to like neurophysiology, um, uh, more so and more of like a recovery type of thing, more so than like I’m getting strong. Like nobody’s getting strong doing that. You get strong by lifting weights that are heavy, um, or.
And strength is relative, but also with speed too, like you have to load things, but also load them with higher speeds to make them more specific to the activity that you’re doing. So, you know, I used to think like battle ropes, like those are done. Like, you just do those in like a, a hit class to get tired and like sweat.
And now I’m like, shit, I was wrong. And I feel like battle ropes. To me. It’s, it’s a really, you’re trying to do it. You can do it slow and just kind of be tired with it. And that’s, I still think I might be even better than doing just bandit, extra rotation or interpretation, whatever better as I can. You can’t define that right now, but there’s definitely a place for battle ropes in my mind.
Um, because of the action being, you can make it really fast. Um, you’re loading it. Nothing is going to be as fast as throwing. So we’re not even trying to be as specific as that. Otherwise you should just go throw and never train. Um, and then you can make it where it’s extensive more. So for like a conditioning thing where you’re going at a slower velocity, slower intensity paste, whatever you want to call it.
And. Doing it for a certain amount of time. I’ve been doing like three reps for 10 seconds with 10 seconds rest. I don’t know why I just do just try this stuff and you see what works because I’m kind of going back to things that, um, I haven’t used in forever. Um, and I never programmed it before. It was just like, Oh, I’m just going to do this for 30 seconds until my shoulders are burning and I can’t do this anymore.
Cause I’m I’m training. I’m working out. And then, um, Yeah. And then Andy Reiland, who is a football guy. He’s a USA. USA. Football. Yeah. Football. Yeah. And I think he works a lot with rugby players as well. He’s got a whole course on like contact preparation, meaning like physical contact, contact sports, tackling, grappling.
All these awesome things that I think needs to be considered when you’re talking about working with a thrower, um, you know, who’s throwing it some serious philosophies, um, because of again, forces. And if you are, if you’re a grappling, I’m just like, am I going to start having my pitchers grapple with each other?
Like, I don’t know. Yeah. I mean, like, If you, yeah. And a wrestler is a great, like example of someone who I feel like should be really good at throwing. Not because they’re going to be skilled to throw because they’re a wrestler. Like they’re just a different athlete, but yeah. The amount of time they spend on their hands, the amount of grappling they do, like.
Those shoulders have to be like stable, unless they’ve obviously had an injury and they’ve been put into all these wacky, you know, because they’re a wrestler, they’d get put into weird positions that might create instability, but the way that they move for their sport, the way that they train probably conducive to a really healthy shoulder for a thrower.
So I’m thinking a lot about doing things that are, I’m starting to do more of the things that Andy is taught. Taught us. Um, and that this was all from you guys, introducing it to me. Um, you were in Dick’s post the Andes and his work before I was, and then now I’m looking more into a lot of the things that he’s doing, and it’s a lot of just thinking about.
It’s the ground-based work is a lot of the stuff I’m adding in. So like we do, everybody does bear crawls. There’s different sorts of things like that, quadrupled work, but then it’s like, right. Let’s take it a step further. Let’s make it harder because like, just doing a bear is the same thing to me is like doing abandoned thing, whatever.
It’s not enough. I think there needs to be more, um, And then, uh, going back to the battle ropes. So that would be like a compression of a compressive force would be something where you’re doing your, your, you have your hands on the ground and you’re doing some sort of bear variation, kicking your legs out, you know, lifting your hands off the floor, going up and down.
A whole bunch of different things that you could find on YouTube, um, in contact preparation, there’s a whole playlist of like 40 something videos from these guys. I think they’re speaking French in the video, but, um, and they’re doing some awesome stuff, things outside strings, that’s what it’s called. Um, if you want to find it and, uh, and then, uh, you know, that’s like a compressive force that you have to deal with at your shoulder elbow as well.
Of course. And then. The, I think the battle rope stuff is sort of like that’s distraction that you then have to react to and create some compressive forces. So you’re reacting to some distraction by using battle ropes. And then I’m thinking like, okay, well going back to like, Bodyblade like, I probably would have trashed by the blades four or five years ago now.
I’m like, eh, I don’t really, I think they’re actually pretty good. I feel like I like them a little bit better than something like a, just a traditional ER, hold. Um, type of thing, you might see that, uh, you know, performance coaches use or physical therapists use with a throwing athlete. Um, yeah, just kind of rambled a little bit, but that’s, that’s, that’s how I was introduced to it by you guys.
And I’m like, this stuff makes a lot of sense because of force and speed and w you know, what things are going on for a throwing athlete at their shoulder. Um, And then it’s just like, I tried a bunch of it myself and I posted some of it on our Instagram previously. Um, and then it’s like, okay, when the time is right with someone in their rehab.
Cause I’m mostly seeing my baseball players are mostly seeing me for rehab purposes. I’m not training necessarily. We’re not on like that further end of the continuum because a lot of them are working with a trainer at the gym we’re in, um, the annex I’m wearing their shirt right now. Um, So a lot of the rehab stuff is like when the, when the time is right, when they’ve done bears long enough, when they’ve done pushups, um, from the ground and they’ve done some stuff like that, like, okay, what can we start to do to progress?
Some of their bare works to be more of like a contact prep type thing. I think that’s one of the things that I love so much about, um, just like that progression of things, of forces like that. Cause I think a lot of, um, Like the issue we have with some of those lower level exercises is not necessarily like the exercise itself.
Like it’s not a sideline three pound, you know, external rotation. It’s like when somebody can do that all day long and it’s not hard for them, and it’s not stressful, it’s not, it’s like, okay. Then we have to provide some other sort of higher level activity to actually create whatever, add a patient that we’re looking for.
So I think being able to have such a long progression like that and to be able to. And I think, you know, having that idea that it’s just, all we’re trying to do is manipulate force in some sort of way, whether, how we’re applying it, whether, how we’re making the person react to it, whatever it is like that makes our progressions pretty much infinite, which I think is really cool.
And it’s one of the reasons why you can get creative without like, Making it look like a circus trick. Cause I think there’s some of those other, you know, um, there’s other things that, that you’ll see online or on the internet that people are doing like, well, it looks really hard, but like, it just, it’s harder for the sake of being hard versus when you go through all those different.
Contact prep, bear activities, like, like you’re talking about with these different, you know, opposite arm, opposite foot, like hopping things from an all four position. There’s so many of those things that are so incredibly hard and challenging, and you’re like you said, you’re getting compressive forces.
You’re working on anti-rotation control. You’re just, you’re doing so many good positive things that. Like kind of start from a much lower level foundation if you’re coming off somebody with an injury, but you can eventually should be progressing to activities like that. If they’re going to try to get back to a high level of sport where, you know, the, the forces involved in the speed of everything is just so much faster and you have to be able to like, control and do some funky, weird things.
Eventually. Definitely. And that goes back to like how I said it before, like, what is arm care? Like people don’t really define arm care really well. To us. It’s, it’s a more of a, like you said, holistic approach and it’s gotta be a total body approach. Um, like if somebody can’t squat or deadlift their body weight like that, that’s their arm care.
Like they need to be able to do that. Um, before they’re even worried about throwing a baseball really hard, um, or safely. Um, and then, yeah, like you said, the band work has a place. I think it’s, like I said, more recovery. If you’re in the off season and you’re not throwing, I feel like it’s kind of a waste.
Um, if you want to do it, cause you’ve done it forever. Sure. Don’t let it take away from something else that you’re already doing though. Um, but that’s the time. If that’s the time of year that you’re in, like you should be getting after it in the gym to the point where you’re, you’re getting what you need and you don’t need to be doing.
Such low level band work. Um, I think Ben Moore should be more so in season while you’re throwing on your high intensity days after you’re done throwing that’s to me, it’s recovery at a certain point. Right. But if you’re 13 and you’ve never done any of this stuff, you should probably do it. You should be introduced to it.
You should do it, um, somewhat regularly during, uh, during a throwing season. But. You know, you should also be playing other sports. You should be wrestling, you should be playing football or whatever else, basketball. Um, cause that’s also at that age, that is part of arm care too, just being an athlete. Um, so I don’t even know, you kind of circumvented the question maybe a little bit, but I think it’s to answer it.
It’s just like constantly trying to find new things, being exposed to different things and seeing how they. How they fit the physical qualities that we’re trying to access or gain from somebody. Um, what are the changes we’re trying to make? What type of athlete are we working with? There’s a lot of factors in how we decide to integrate something new.
Um, I would say it’s definitely, always by our, like we D we try stuff with ourselves first, before we were never giving something to an athlete that we’ve never done. Um, There’s. Yeah, there’s never a time that this happened. Um, so like, um, I’ve never Olympic lifted, so I’m not going to do a thing with my athletes.
Um, th this is going to get a lot of buzz on. If people are talking about Olympic lifting on social media, they freaked out when we sent a. Instagram posts of you. It was the whatever. Um, but, uh, yeah, like if, if somebody has to Olympic lifts, then I’m going to send them to somebody else. So I’ll send them to you because you’ve done that.
And then you’ll probably send them somewhere else anyway. Um, but yeah, I think that answers that question. And then, uh, anything else you want to. No, I don’t think so. Not right now. You keep this one pretty short. Uh, the only other thing, uh, is a reminder. So today is Wednesday, the 25th of November. The day before Thanksgiving, we have our black Friday sale coming up.
So we have a new product that we’re, we’re putting out a little, uh, uh, groin injury reconditioning program is what we’re calling it. So, um, The purpose of the program, the way I was kind of describing it to some people was that in PT school, you have your Cyrex classes, you have your rehab classes, you know what to do when it’s an acute situation, you know what to do when you have precautions from a surgeon.
Um, you know, you respect tissue healing properties in the acute phases, subacute phases, but then if that’s all you’re doing, then you’re just, you just have to outsource everything after that. And if you’re not outsourcing everything after that, then you’re doing a disservice. So this is something that should then be considered towards the middle to late part of a quote unquote rehab, where someone needs to get ready to return to their sport.
Um, or they’re currently with starting their sport or something like that. Um, so that’s this focus for this program. They’ll leave the groin and we’re going to start coming out with more of them for various injuries. Um, it’s a full four phase program includes conditioning. It’s primarily for like what a field sport athletes should be doing.
Um, that’s where you see most of, well, you see a lot of hockey, growings and hockey, but. Something like soccer, um, lacrosse, field hockey, sports like that, um, football, you’ll see some brain injuries as well. Um, so that product is going to be free as part of a three product bundle, where you get the course, you get that grant program and then you get access to a private exercise database, um, all for like over 50% off discount or something like that.
But either way, we’re going to get a lot more people involved with what we’re doing. We want to develop more. Online content like this. Um, so we’re excited about it and we, we hope you guys are as well. So definitely, uh, if you are not on the email list, get on the email list and we’ll plug that again.
Cause we’re going to send out notifications about black Friday, send you a link of where to go. Um, otherwise just check out social media. There’s a whole link in your bio saying whatever to, uh, to find the black Friday event. And then, uh, that’s it for today. Any other, any other, anything else to close it?
Thanks everybody. Thanks for listening and happy Thanksgiving.